The Crisis of the Late Middle Ages
Lisa M. Lane 2008
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Lisahistory: The Late Middle Ages

Transcript: partial only!

>> The crisis keeps jumping off the page at me like, crisis, crisis, war, struggle, crisis and then the only thing that really is good is the last section where what happened? Political power consolidates, I mean, come on. Who suffers from that in the last section of the chapter and they are consolidating political power, for example in Spain?

[ Inaudible ]

>> I'm sorry?

>> Minorities?

>> Minorities. Anybody who doesn't fit the general direction of society towards a very particular kind of Catholic Christianity, you know, is out, right -- I mean, literally kicked out of Spain. So, it's an interesting way to look at -- well, I mean here is [inaudible] with politics. Well, it kind of depends on who you are. Andrew?

[ Inaudible ]

>> Oh yeah.

[ Inaudible ]

>> Yeah.

[ Inaudible ]

>> Yeah.

[ Inaudible ]

>> Correct. Well and motivation is the safe result. Motivation is not to destroy the human being, right, but, of course as with all systems that could go terribly wrong, under certain [inaudible] circumstances we definitely have a good setting for those circumstances here and particularly when those religious motivations combined with political and social power you know, you end up with things like witch hunts and elimination of political enemies and all sorts of things you know kind of combining together, but doesn't necessarily mean that the intention was so strange or so wrong. So, I think that's a very good point. This particular image you know I was talking about mood. I don't usually talk about mood, but with the late Middle Ages and with the Renaissance there is a mood thing. Now, you are going through a mood thing now with American history, right. We just had this very moody election, this very emotional set-up and people talk about the mood of this country shifting and how permanent that's going to be and how it's going to be in all that kind of thing. Now, there seem to be certain periods in history where the general mood becomes an issue. I think it is an issue with the late Middle Ages and I think it is with the Renaissance we get a lot of the social, economic medical stuff that's going on causing a shift in attitudes and how people see the world. I don't know what else do you call that except mood, you know, but it's a cultural shift. You see it of course and I'll be showing you several examples of art today. In the art this one is a little bit difficult to see on the lit screen, but this is about the time of the height of the plague you know, they think it was made around the 1350. We've got a painting here with people who are -- wealthy people who are trying to escape the plague by leaving the town. This was very common thing to do to try to leave the germ-ridden area. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't, sometimes they brought that plague with them, sometimes they did escape some of the conditions that caused the spread. And as they escaped along the way there you see rotting corpses, you know laying in coffins that nobody has bothered to put in the ground yet and that kind of having made their way out of town. There's constant reminder of death is in all of the art, and so we see that as part of the mood too, very death oriented in a lot of that. Talking about death, living closer with death than most of us do now and it changes the way people see things. If you go back to the causes and I have been reading a book about history that says, there is no actual causation in history at all, just explanation, which I think is an interesting perspective. If that's correct, then this is an explanation for how society turned so much and it's a biological explanation, it's a climate change explanation where you see this before. For example when was the last time we saw climate change create social and economic change.

[ Inaudible ]

>> Yeah, we saw it with the Barbarians being pushed out of the Chinese region the Huns being pushed into the Roman Empire, we saw it then that was based on climate change. Where else did we see it?

[ Inaudible ]

>> Going all the way back to the ancient world they even think that there was a climate change around that time that led to some of the world's great philosophies about the same time as Socrates and Buddha and all of those global climate changes that made it easier to survive and therefore easier to expand in the world of ideas. We also just saw it in the last unit with the high Middle Ages and that agricultural revolution happening, all that stuff that was also part of the kind of warming climate change. Well, here we've got the outfit, nasty, cold, wet weather in Europe and you can see it a little more clearly here in the green line, the average temperature drop being seen happened around 1300's. We definitely see it in the art. This is art by Pieter Bruegel where previously snowscapes had really not been a European art thing. It becomes European art thing because there is a lot more to know, a lot more rain, a lot more mud, and a lot of trouble as a result. This famine is not just European. The famine that happened also happened in China. This is a global climate change very similar to the ones that brought the Hunns into the Roman Empire. This one is much more severe apparently. There were famines in China and there are reports there of people eating children. Well, that gives you an idea of the extremity. Even if it's just a story, it gives you the idea of the extremity of the problem and we have something very similar in Europe for the exact same reason. The things that you were able to plant before even with you know the [inaudible] and all of the things you get to see down there that's all too wet, the plant can't even come up. They wash away. It's too cold for the crops they were growing, they're not accustomed to that kind of environment, they don't grow as well, they are weaker, weaker plants, they attract bugs, they attract the diseases, yields go down, food shortages, famine everywhere, all the way across the Eurasian continent, not just in Europe. It's quite severe. So severe that they call it the little ice age. To give you an idea of how this is perceived. So, it doesn't start with -- I think it started with misconception that it all started with the Black Death. It doesn't all start with Black Death. It starts here -- that biologically, I mean, there is a connection because when people aren't getting enough to eat and they are not warm enough, I mean what happens? They get ill, right. They get sick. Not necessarily deadly thing, it seems as though the immune system of the population of Europe goes into decline as the result of not enough food, poor weather conditions, not being set up with this sort of climate. It seems to happen really fast, you know, within the generation everything is different, and the people are saying you know it's funny you know the old people were saying, I haven't seen it like this. It just wasn't like this. And people start getting a lot of upper respiratory infections, some people get chilled and they get cold when they get wet, they can't get warm, they can't get dry. And you have a lot of that, that's actually really important historically.

[ Pause ]

>> The reason why it's important is it is that condition apparently that immunological condition that type of disease that was deadly, but not very frequent and turned it into an epidemic. Bubonic plague is a blood borne disease. It is usually transferred though blood contact. That's why fleas are an important carrier because fleas take blood to and from one victim after another. The bubonic plague then was deadly, but it wasn't terribly common and it's not that easy to spread. We still have bubonic plague. They occasionally find squirrels who have it and stuff up in the mountains. Sometimes people get bit by one of these animals and they get bubonic plague and kind of [inaudible] and it's no big deal as long as they know what it is -- this [inaudible]. If you get it you can't treat it. There was no such thing as penicillin then. Obviously, the chance of death is fairly high, but the chance of communication is fairly low, you know giving it to somebody else will be hard to do unless their blood was somehow in contact with your blood. It's not an easy thing to spread. It came I think from Central Asia. It gets spread -- the climate change is directly related. Not only because people's immune systems were lower, so they were more likely to catch diseases, but because the climate change itself caused the shift in the kind of fleas and the kind of rats that became common. The breeding areas of animals all over the world shift. We know that more now depending on climate change, right. We've got the polar bear problem right now, why?

[ Inaudible ]

>> It's getting warm up in the arctic, their area is a problem. They are moving. They are coming into cities with stuff trying to find food because the area where they are in is no longer has the environment they need. So, we know how this happened. The European brown rat, used to be the most common rat in Europe, but because of the climate change it starts to get ran out of a lot of its feeding areas. It's the rat that kind of like things warm and nice. It's also a rat that doesn't tend to like people very much as sort of out there on its own and instead, a rat that prefers with the colder weather and nastier climate, the Eurasian black rat has taken over the feeding area, this is true, throughout Eurasia of the European brown rats. There it is up there. That's the black rat. Not only does this rat define in the colder [inaudible] climate, but in real friendly, likes to hang out with people, likes to live with people and that particular kind of rat carry the particular kind of flea that carries the bubonic plague. So, we've got several factors here, right or explanations that a lowered immune system on the part of the population and then we have a shift in the rats feeding areas in Europe, so that the Eurasian black rats is at a definite advantage and this rat likes to be a lot closer to people actually like to set up housekeeping in people back rooms and in the corners of the kitchen like hanging with people, like its food prepared already, likes grain came over during the Crusades, during the trade routes that began with the Crusades came over from the Middle East, on ships because they like hanging out with people on ships and eating the grain up in the storage. That's one reason why the plague begins here in the south and in the east and gradually moves northward keeps coming in these rats with those fleas, they are coming in on the trade routes across the Mediterranean -- yeah?

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> Yeah, that's an odd -- it's the only book I've ever seen out in, yeah. It's not -- what they are trying to deal with I think is the inhalation aspect of that disease. Again, to go back to the bubonic thing, not so easy to spread. So, the question is so what, you've got these rats, they've got these fleas, the fleas have bubonic plague, they come in. Some people in Italy should get sick, some of them are going to die and that should pretty much be the end of it, but that's not what happened. I think the anthrax thing is coming out of -- find out -- figure out how come they become an epidemic and I think it can be relatively simply explained by the idea that everybody pretty much had a head cold in response to the poor climate conditions and the depravation of their immune system, you've got a whole bunch of people who are sneezing and coughing and we noticed that that habit of saying "bless you" when you sneeze. It's the sneezing and coughing that got people's attention -- The sneezing and coughing isn't a part of the bubonic plague. That's -- it's got nothing to do with bubonic plague. The blood disease that put these boils on your body that has pus in it. It's an infection and you die, okay, bacterial infection. It's got nothing to do with coughing and sneezing. Everybody was already coughing and sneezing, so what happens is once bubonic plague gets into the blood it gets in to the lungs and if everybody's coughing and sneezing, it goes from being bubonic plague, a blood borne disease to pneumonic plague, an airborne disease. And that's what I think they are trying to figure out and it's simpler than they're making it. So, the germs then are being spread through the air and that's not the way bubonic plague is usually traveled. Coughing, sneezing, you can imagine the speed of spread like what happens with the flu every year. It spreads quickly because it's airborne. It's no longer bubonic plague. I won't even call it that. The Black Death is pneumonic plague, gone into the lungs and being coughed and sneezed by every body and that's like [inaudible]. That's why it moves so quickly from here to the top of the map here within a year. And the only people who have immunity to it, you know under these conditions immunity is very difficult. The only people who really get immunity to it are those who had it severely, who has gotten the buboes, the big you know boils with the pus in it and who happened to find a wise woman, a doctor who have some sort of understanding of spreading germs between the objects, you know this is before germ theory. Somebody who understood that if you lance those boils with a clean knife and drain them out, the chance for survival is very high, assuming that their immune system isn't so run down that they can't fight any infection at all. But you have people trying that and sometimes it failed, right because if you use a dirty knife you get a super infection and they die anyway. So, lancing the boils was not a popular thing to do because sometimes it led to death anyway. So, trial and error would say sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but possible to survive it. If you survived it you were then immune if it came back, just you, not your children, not any body else, just you had immunity if the thing came back again, which it did many, many times. Yes, Rebecca?

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> Yes, so it gets in the blood. And you'll still get the boils. Now, the boils were not - the same necessarily from the reports that we read the medical reports that we read in some places then that's why they think they call it the Black Death. The boils took the form of black blotches you know rather than an actual boil that you can do something about and again they weren't sure that doing something about it was the right thing to do.

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> Sometimes and again that didn't always work either. I mean, they weren't widely available. It wasn't yet a confirmed medical practice. We don't get that until already 18th century when leeches become a common practice. That the problem with leeches in this case is that leeches -- the reason they work and they work very well is because their saliva contains an enzyme that's a blood thinner. So, it enabled further bleeding. Well, it's not necessarily something you want to do here. They don't drink pus, they drink blood. So, it would be of somewhat, you know -- you wouldn't be able to tell whether it's working and that was really the problem here. Making you all hungry for lunch, am I?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah? Sorry. So, this kind of situation you see here of people lying around covered with boils, I mean, that happens. And it happens on plot and when we are talking mortality rates here and this is why I don't like that your chapter kind of played light of it you are talking a third to a half of the entire population. Obviously, in more crowded places it is going to be higher and more densely populated places, this might be a little lower. People wouldn't be coughing and sneezing on each other all the time, but that's still incredibly high. I mean if you can imagine in your community, imagine this room, imagine half of everybody dead within the next couple of weeks. How would we react to that?

[ Pause ]

>> Everybody around you, every other person is dead. The next time we meet, next Wednesday, your reaction would be...

[ Inaudible ]

>> Yeah. I don't think so. If we knew they were dead, I think we'd be frightened. Frightened for itself wondering what was going on. So, it was -- you know half of Encinitas, half of San Diego, half of California, half of the United States, if half of every body you know died within the next year, it would cause a reaction. I think your chapter down plays that -- that reaction. The skeletons in the pictures, the rotting corpses, that was stuff people saw everyday. It wasn't just an artistic conceit. They were closer to death because everybody around them was dying or had died and yes we saw it caused some opportunity, right? And it would I'm sure in our own family cause some opportunity, but it would seriously shake us up everything the awful way, seriously shake us up.

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> Who is behind it? We'd have conspiracy theories, right. We'd start looking for who caused it. We'd get into the anthrax scare thing, right. Who caused it, where are the terrorist that control this. Yes?

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> Maybe, if we knew how to stop it. I mean, if it was completely analogous the situation we wouldn't -- our health care system wouldn't know what to do about it. Will there be a definite feeling of helplessness that you never to [inaudible]. Yeah. Completely discredit? Yes, exactly, the entire health care system might come tumbling down if it were ineffective in a case like this. And here you have that situation you know you have healthcare system in the Middle Ages. You have people who have knowledge of herbs and how to use them. You did have people who knew to lance the boil and knew to use certain kinds of remedies. The problem is they are scattered all over the place and a lot of them tend to be hold up in monasteries away from the local population. It's not the same kind of system as we have now. There was some knowledge there, but it was very difficult to get to.

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> They tried not to. The difficulty was that you know, again, a third to a half. That means a third to half of your priests, okay. So, who is there to open the church doors, who is there to give you your last rites, who is there to save your soul, who is there to be the intermediary with God for you if half of the priests are dead, half of the bishops are dead. You know think of it that way, your whole connection. Imagine our health scare with half of the doctors and nurses dead.

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> Yeah, there's that. The natural human reaction was to get the hell away from all of this. Yeah. You must already have it and you knew that you were immune to, but yeah, yeah, we all want to hang out a lot with this sort of thing, right. Natural disease and people bleeding and yeah, this is something we'd all choose to be with.

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> Oh yeah and then of course you have to have if you got [inaudible], right, somebody who is willing to go around people who are dying knowing how fast this thing is spreading and give them last rites. They are doing the best they can here. It's not very good. This is massive. What I'm talking about is massive social upheaval. Yeah?

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> That's a good question. I'm not sure -- I thought he was holding like herbs and stuff in his hand, but I could be wrong about that. I am not sure. I was looking for pictures of patients.

>> Of?

>> Particularly the female who's exposed because that becomes a big deal is that people are willing to let themselves be examined by anybody who said they know anything. Picassio [assumed spelling] comments on that, right here. Countless times it happened that two priests going forth with the cross to bury someone were joined by three or four biers, talking about how priests would go out to bury somebody who were alive and they'd end up with more and more bodies to deal with. Picassio also writes about these women who would just let anybody examine them. They would take off their clothes for anybody if they thought they were in any danger about anybody who knew anything, examine their body. So, a lot of modesty he wrote about that. People's behavior shifted because the condition like he is reporting here to the point where dead bodies themselves as he said here are treated like dead ghost. You don't even bother to bury them they just sort of pile up in the corner and stink until somebody throws some dirt on top. Technically, of course if you were mucking with the blood and people are breathing, I supposed it's possible. They kept trying to control it by doing things like burning things people were wearing. I don't believe that had any effect whatsoever. In fact it made people cough more to be burning things. They didn't know that's where it was coming from.

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> At least when the rats brought it in. The coughing and the sneezing is what spread it. It's what makes it go from a disease manifesting itself in one location, two locations, three to an epidemic. So, I believe that the transfer from the bubonic state to the pneumonic state is what causes the epidemic and therefore the large number of deaths. Like I said you still have outbreak to bubonic plague in various areas of the world, hundreds dead at the most in a small geographic area, if it gets out of control. This is way beyond there. But some of the reactions. One reaction -- this is a wedding picture up top here. It's sort of the eat, drink, and be merry reaction for tomorrow we die, right. If we are all going to die anytime, it could happen anytime, then you might as well party now, right. So, there's a party on reaction. I'm sorry -- yeah, Carpe Diem, that's what it is. Seize the moment, seize the day. This is it. You are all going to die in the end, might as well have a good time. For some people just kind of throw off all restrictions they had and kind of social restrictions they did whatever they wanted, they ignored their society, whatever it was and they party, they ate great food, they spent all their money, you know all those things that you would do if you figured you are going to die tomorrow.

>> End of the world.

>> Yeah, the end of the world reactions. We get a very much end of the world reaction. Actually, the textbook does at least mention that that there is an end of the world vision going on here. That's one way to handle the end of the world, to party. Another way is to purify your soul and the book does mention this flagellant beatings of selves, trying to scourge their body. Obviously, this is a physical rite. If you think this is -- if you got no technical explanation for this illness, God is allowing this to happen if not actually causing it right. Why? Everybody must be being punished for something. Punished for some sort of moral infraction, there's plagues in the Bible all over the place. Anybody reading the Bible would clearly see thousands die of plague when they've been immoral, when they've done wrong. I mean that lesson is very clear. So, people try to purify themselves, set a moral example for others and take on really in a lot of ways society's burden of morality for every one by doing extreme acts like flagellation. There's another reaction, maybe I don't know if it is an opposite reaction from the partying thing, but maybe so. Some people approach this as ran away like the first picture I saw that I showed you every body just leaving, right. They just run, panic, pack every thing up, try to get to the countryside. Try to find somebody out there that will take you in. Obviously the rich have an advantage, right, for that one. Pack everything up and move up to your country home is not an option that most people have. Again, it worked for some it didn't worked for others. So, there's a number of reactions going on. To give you some examples of the art shift. The artistic shift, the skeletons everywhere, the bust of women with the back a skull, you know that kind of thing, very, very common. Memento Mori: Reminders of Death. Your chapter does get into this and gives some excellent visual examples. Death is everywhere. Your textbook does also mention up here that the death is hanging out with people scene. Death grabs people in the middle. They are doing something else. She's busy being lovely I guess. So, this is she kind of busy being beautiful, being fabulous and death is right there to grab her. Lots of pictures of skeleton creatures right behind the rich man, you know, your money is not going to save you. Right behind the child, your innocence is not going to save you. Death is hanging out at every party. Death is in every meaning, that kind of thing and the image of Jesus shifts quite a bit too. During the high Middle Ages you see a lot of those if you remember Mariology, Madonna and Child, happy babies, you know, Virgin Mary happy baby, sort of the happy family theme starts shifting to Jesus as an adult hanging off the cross. You know it's not that there aren't images of each in each period, but we see far more images of a suffering Jesus on the cross dying for people's sin in this era and a lot fewer happy mammas and babies. So, what they are drawing also changes as well as how they are drawn.

[ Inaudible ]

>> Yeah I think you know -- yeah. If you are looking for darkness, they are not in the Dark Ages. They are more here, yeah, I would agree with that. I think the word dark was originally use by Sir Andrew for a time for which we don't have a lot of written evidence. I mean, historians like writing stuff, they like to separate down, they like talking about that stuff and the like, that's [inaudible] if you don't have that enough you really art.

[ Inaudible ]

>> This is morally dark, utterly miserable.

[ Pause ]

>> Obviously a decline in church procedure goes without saying when there is nobody to give last rites to your dying family. When there is nobody to baptize your dying child, so worshipers themselves are part of the reason that the church goes into decline, the church cannot help. The church can also by the way not explain. Why is this happening to us and what could be the church's possible answer to that. There's only two. What would they be -- yeah. You are doing something wrong or we as a society are doing something wrong. You don't have enough faith, you're being immoral, you're not following the rules of the church. You are not doing a good thing.

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> Not the church splitting.

>> Yeah, once we get to that point, but remember that split -- actually it's not really a split, yet. It's the Pope being in the wrong place and yeah, you could do that. You could point certain political things that are out of place and say, these things are out of place, the Pope isn't where he is supposed to be. This could be happening because of that, but the church itself can't say that to you. That would be something we talk about, but the church wouldn't say that. So, either it isn't your fault or it is your fault. I mean, those are basically the two church's responses. What am I supposed to do about this? Well, that's the answer as far as the church was concerned. We call it now looking at what they recommended, mechanical piousy, act of religion that you do mechanically that you do because you're supposed to do, the church tells you to do it. What do you do while everybody around you is sick and dying? Well, you do the habit that you've been taught, you say the prayers that you have been taught, you repeat the last words almost like an incantation or spell desperately trying to stave off disaster. You count the rosary beads, you say the prayers as you go around over and over and over until the words just kind of blur together and they don't really mean anything. It's magical in a sense. And that's what the church tell people to do. If you don't have enough faith, if this is happening because we are being unholy, then make yourself more holy and there's a whole way to do that. There's all these prayers, there's reading Bible about the saints, there's going to confession, there's trying to clean up your life, all of those things.

[ Inaudible ]

>> That's the problem. That was where they had their --

>> We are not holy enough and the priests are not holy enough I suppose.

>> Yeah. It is seems to be a big contradiction here especially when the good people you know are dying too. They are really good people. The people who you know aren't doing anything wrong, you know and they are dying too. So, they don't have answers for this except to say pray harder, pray harder, pray more, pray more, pray twice a day, pray three times a day, pray five times a day, carry your rosary with you everywhere and pray constantly. Okay. Now, the historians call that mechanical piety, doing things over and over and over, like an incantation. It's sort of a desperate way. After a while doing that a lot one could lose ones connection to God particularly if you think it's like a pay off system. Well if I pray the rosary four hundred times a day I won't get the plague. You know, that kind of magical thinking, that sort of thing comes into play.

[ Inaudible ]

>> Simple devotion that an ordinary person can do that rebuilds faith, right, that anyone can do. You don't have to be in the business, right of constructing the church. The church should be recovered right and that simple act like this based in the Biblical precedent and the stories that people can understand are what becomes meaningful. Well, for many people they were, but if you prescribe them over and over and over and over for many people, they tend to lose that connection.

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> Oh absolutely. No, it's pulled together very nicely and I see it though and as a story I see it that it's sort of an act of desperation. The church doesn't know what to do, right. So, they come up with this. Now, of course the fact that mystic diverge means that not every body does that or the saints then in doing those things, not more devotion, simple devotion, personal devotion with a natural lack of faith that no connection. In other words they see those habits, those prayers as becoming so mechanical to be an interruption between you and your spiritual source. Yes, those are these people, right.

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> Right.

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> Right, your spirituality, your connection with God. So, people who establish a direct connection with that spiritual power we call mystic. So, it's not at all surprising that during this time period most people kind of went one way or the other, right, they kind of went more toward what the church tell them to do, more confession, more sacraments, more prayers, or they tended to go the other way and establish a direct connection with God whether church was [inaudible]. There's no church necessary here. Your priest is dead anyway. I mean, are you going to then not have access to any sort of spiritual power whatsoever. It doesn't make sense, right. In time of need that thinking doesn't make sense. So, you've gotten this Catherine of Siena is a good example. She is also shown in your book on page 318 at the front of the parade bringing Pope Gregory XI back from Avignon to Rome. This kind of faith where she is saying hey this is my relationship with God. Now, take that back like a hundred years and what would she become -- a heretic, right. This is not okay, say oh excuse me I talk to God. It's not okay with the church. Yes?

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> Yes. The [inaudible]. What's interesting thing is that because of this you have a church that has accepted that certain individuals would become saints you know. Those individuals do have a different kind of connection. At this point it threatens the church. Now, it is considered part of the faith -- yes?

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> Yes, Joan of Arc actually interestingly enough they set her up as a religious conflict. She is s political threat and it's really -- it becomes very difficult to separate out the motivation in her persecution. Yes, she qualifies as a mystic. She said, I spoke to God and God told me to wear men's clothes and lead the army for the [inaudible] of France. Okay, that's what God told her to do through a saint that I was told to do this, so she is definitely a mystic, but the persecution was not the church punishing her for being a mystic. It was the state, punishing her for leading the troops. So, there is a combination there with Joan that's a little bit trickier than it appears -- yes?

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> Catholic mystic.

>> Yeah.

>> They are catholic?

[ Inaudible ]

>> And notice she is Saint Catherine, she is not you know, we don't have the Peter [inaudible] syndrome going on here. The church acknowledges-Here [inaudible] people like them.

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> Yes.

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> Yes, yes. There are several different ways at looking at this and none of them come out very good for the church.

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> Yes, and they love him for I mean, the fact that this is all happening at the same time as the Babylonian captivity, right, and a great deal, this is not a coincidence. I mean, they are doing everything they can to make themselves look as worldly as possible. It's a natural reaction I think to say to kind of go that heretic way and say the church is too earthly and this is the punishment. It's not us. It's that institution -- yeah?

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> The Council of -- you mean, of Constance? The one that ends at -- that's 1414 and you've got the plague starting 1347, okay. Let me show you how that -- I know think I did that as a timeline, but I did this -- the dates of the churches issue here, okay. So, the plague itself, the Black Death hits Italy. The rats and the plague first comes to Italy here 1347. Now, it hits England 1348. So, that's the year, the key year of the plague. So, as you can see, that's right in the middle of the Babylonian captivity of Pope where he's been in Avignon under the domination of the French King where a lot of people think he should be and this is where you get the argument that we are being punished because the Pope has been removed from Rome. Why would anybody care about that by the way? What difference does it make where the Pope is?

[ Inaudible audience question ]

>> Yeah.

[ Inaudible ]

>> Yeah.

[ Inaudible ]

[ Inaudible ]

>> And there is scriptural foundation for this, that Peter upon which you go to church. Peter in Greek, Petra is rock, the rock upon which I will build my church as the literal body of Saint Peter was buried in Rome. You can't put the center of the church anywhere else. According to Petrine theory that was Pope Gregory I way before this saying that's what gives me my power over all of Europe is the fact that I am in Rome, right. So, that Petrine theory was just being thrown out the window here for political reasons of having the Pope being in Avignon. People realize that's wrong. So, the plague hits right in the middle of this and then of course the entire situation gets worse because they try to move it back, right. They try to move the Papacy back to Rome and what happened? The schism -- how did the schism happen. Why didn't the Pope just move back to Rome and start ruling from Rome, what occurred there?

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>> Well, yeah, but there's a - what they don't explain here, here's what I think again the book is not as good as it ought to. The guy died. The guy who made the move he died. And so this leaves both groups of Cardinals. The French guys in Avignon and the Roman guys in Rome thinking that they should be the one to elect the next Pope and so they each elect one. I think if he'd moved and had hung around for ten years maybe that wouldn't happen, but he died and so each group of Cardinals elect the next Pope. So you end up with these guys, two of them. You know the cartoon showed them fighting. You've got two of them. They of course excommunicate each other -- duh! They excommunicate each other. They declared the other one to be the anti-Pope and on the side of the devil, right. I mean, what a better time to be black and white here. And so, anybody who declared loyalty to one has to then believe that the other one is working for the devil. You divide everybody up and here's a map of the allegiances. Not surprisingly, the orange although there are some here and there scattered are loyal to the Avignon Pope and the yellow ones are loyal to the Roman Pope and each one has a wonderful reason to hate the other people, right, in the other region.

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>> Yeah. No question about it. I mean, if you look back, the fact that you've declared that the Pope is the international power what do you do when there's two. Now, you got two international powers, which means they line up nationally depending on who supports them. There's various countries and provinces and which Princes decides who's right and who is wrong and they bring their whole population with them. It's a wonderful set-up for warfare. They really did a good job setting Europe this way and they grow.

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>> Dangerous.

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>> Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't want be in either place. Now, the castle you see up there. That's the castle of the Pope in Avignon. I mean, tough place. I mean not only it's beautiful. It's obviously very lovely and very luxurious, but it's also rather hard to break in to, you know to hurt anybody. This would be a dangerous time to be in either city. Yeah?

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>> The battleground for different -- yeah.

>> No, not necessarily.

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>> Yeah.

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>> Yeah, yeah. I think you do have that. Chris you were going to say?

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>> Yeah.

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>> No. It's very heavily guarded.

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>> Yeah, yeah.

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>> They would have taken power? Oh, I doubt it. I don't think politically that would have been allowed to happen any more than with Joan, right. They guy she was promoting got into power, but she never achieved power and that would -- I would assume the same sort of thing that would happen in that circumstance. It was tried. Nobody was able to do it. It is -- nothing gets resolved that's 1414, the Council of Constance, right. When they finally resolved it, they end up having to fire three Popes by that point. There's actually a third one Martin who gets elected to solve the problem and then the other two Pope don't step down. So, at one point there was actually three, you know I didn't really bother to post that map. There's actually three Popes at one point before the Council of Constance [inaudible]. These guys died and Martin stepped down [inaudible] find them, but yeah, assassination would have been much quicker.

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>> Okay, we also know -- this is the last couple of topics here that you already are familiar with from your text that we have a problem with peasant rebellion. [Inaudible]. The peasant rebellion is the result of rising expectations that I think any of us could understand. This advantage that you were talking about here where you got so many people who die that your labor, your peasant labor is worth twice as much. So, you want to be able to charge twice as much, right? You know that your labor is worth more on the market. So, you leave, you decide you're not a serf anymore. You take off and who's going to stop you, cause anybody who would stop you is dead. So, you go off and you sell your labor to somebody else and you ask a higher price because they're [inaudible] that they were before. So, you know you are going to live a better life, right, but what happens, did you get to live that better life and get more pay? There's a crackdown -- serious bureaucratic crackdown and they start passing these laws, saying well, you can't get paid anymore than you got paid during the plague. We are going to set the wages at pre-plague level. So, here you had all this hope, right, rising expectations. It's like what happens when you know you get a pay increase and you go wow, all the things I want to do with that pay increase and then of course you know the interest rate goes up on the Visa card. You suddenly have that debt that you forgot you had to pay back and all these hopes that you had for that pay increase go right down the drain. It's like a big version of that. People got angry and they knew that the people who are keeping them down, they knew who they were and they went after them. So, the Jackery is the people on top here showing these peasants with hatchets beating on this knight. The knight, you know it wouldn't be like necessarily a real knight, but you get the idea, right what they try to portray here. These are the oppressors, the ones who own the land and they would break into people's houses there's report here of killing everybody. This is anger, severe anger, rebellion, revolt. It's not even necessarily political. It's emotional. So, what's happened to them and then of course they all get punished. The establishment wins this one for sure. This is the head of the Jackery being beheaded after it's all over and they maintain their control. Why -- primarily because even with half the population the military might is still in the hands of the wealthy and mass action against widely spaced-out manors can only do so much. This is really a countryside phenomenon, the peasant revolt. Like things weren't bad enough, right, you've got the Hundred Years War caused by a conflict over who is in charge of France. Is it England or is it France? Because the king of France at this time really controls only a very small region and there were a lot of claims on the northern area here of European continent that were claimed by England's king. The battles were horrible. I mean, first you notice that it's more than a hundred years right. I mean, if you live the day, hundred-year war, but it's not a hundred years. It goes on, it goes off, it goes on, it goes off and then the new leader gets [inaudible] and the new Prince starts up again. It will stop for a while then there's treaty then it starts up again. It keeps going. It's being fought in the climate conditions I told you about. Henry V was written by Shakespeare that's supposed to take place during the Hundred Years War and if you watch movies, there's been a whole bunch of movies made of Henry V and usually the guys were out fighting the sunshine. You figure that is accurate? This one, the one that Kenneth Branagh did fifteen years ago, something like that was the first one where he actually showed people fighting in Henry V in the mud and the rain and muck that is soggy all the time and dark -- that's accurate. The weather condition were appalling, the fighting scenes were amazing and diseases spread during the Hundred Years War during the fighting because of the climate condition -- awful. I mean, if this war is not bad enough, you add that to it. And yes, Joan of Arc brings in a whole perspective of nationalism that we have never seen before. This idea that France is for the French, I mean, that's a completely new concept. These people were so interrelated with each other for hundred of years. So, that idea is really kind of bizarre that she is saying that there is a France. There wasn't a France. There were a bunch of different princes and groups who controled this or that, the old feudal structure was there and was very much tied in with the English feudal structure. She is creating something we call nationalism out of nothing because God told her she could. Now, she is a good way to tie to the politics, to the religion in mysticism and the horror of the time all sort of together if you want to do that. I wish we have more time to look at her and her trial and all of that. It's a shame that we don't what we can't do, can't do everything.

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>> Okay, that will be good. I will be seeing you. I have to collect your homework and you'll notice that what I've got posted for over the weekend, a couple of people have already been in there is this map. I'd like you to bring in some of these, understanding that the book wasn't so good at relaying about the spread of the Black Death and comments on the map, okay. And then you have homework to give to me now and Renaissance homework to give to me next week when a lot of you through [inaudible].

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>> I do. I have your clicker, but this grade will be posted right away on the website. I got to this really quickly, but the quizzes themselves and a bunch of old stuff too that haven't been picked up [inaudible]. Hurry up by all means [inaudible].

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>> Oh, I don't know. I just like the conditions for -- I'm not a big Branagh fan. I just -- the conditions for the battle...

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