Age of Discovery
Lisa M. Lane 2008
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Lisahistory: Age of Discovery

Transcript

[ Silence ]

>> [Inaudible] off the screen to do. Okay, this is exactly what you were working on what, last night, this morning?

[ Laughter ]

[ Inaudible Remarks ]

>> Okay, good, good, cause I'll be pressuring, you. I don't usually have [inaudible] at all. You know, that's very rare but I here's one I want you to know.

[ Pause ]

>> Where is Constantinople?

[ Inaudible Remarks ]

>> Yeah, right, right. I can't reach it and I don't have one of those pointer things. Or maybe I do.

[ Inaudible Remarks ]

>> Right in the middle is the point [inaudible]. It's right in the middle. Yeah, those pointer things. [Inaudible] perhaps as you can see from Europe all the way to China, the crossover point between Asia and Europe is Constantinople. This is why it used to be called what? Before it was Constantinople it was?

>> Byzantium.

>> Byzantium, okay, which is Greek and then it became Constantinople when approximately? Who was in charge?

>> Constantine.

>> Constantine, the Romans, right, the Roman era, alright. It turns into Constantinople. Becomes at that point then a Christian city still extremely wealthy because still it's the crossover point. What you're seeing here in Asia, especially those northern ridges right there, it's called the Silk Road. You've got goods traveling all the way from China across the Silk Road and the Silk Road coming across here at the base of the Caucasus and going towards Constantinople across the Black Sea and then all the goods going into Europe. This was their network that the crusaders tapped in to because they were over here. This is how goods from the east came in. So this city is extremely important, it's a very wealthy city and whoever controls this city could potentially control a great deal of the trade leaving between east and west. So the reason 1453 is such an important date is that's when the Muslim empires in the area take over the city. That's when it becomes, what's it called now?

>> Istanbul.

>> Istanbul, okay. This period of exploration and discovery, probably because it's the first unit you get when you study American History has so many myths and mistakes and things that are wrong and it's kind of amazing. One of the things I thought that was wrong with that when the Muslim took over Constantinople in 1453 they cut off the trade. They just, they cut it off. No other Christian city, Christians can't trade here, they cut it off and that that's what was the primary motive for discovery and exploration, trying to find a way around that situation because the Muslim had cut off the trade. They didn't cut off the trade. They started making money off the trade. They started taxing the trade that came through to make a buck. I mean wouldn't you if you took over such a wealthy place? So they did, so the disagreement was not over cutting off trade which is the last thing they'd want to do, it was a disagreement over who wants to pay the new Muslim tax. And nobody wanted to pay the new Muslim tax. If they could find a way to avoid this network to somehow get around it maybe by sea, if Europeans could find a way to bring the stuff back from the east without having to pay the taxes going through Constantinople, now a Muslim city, they wanted to find a way to do that. 'Cause that's really the motivation, it's not that anybody were cutting off trade, it's a money thing. Now of course I tell you that, right, 'cause I'm an economic historian so that's what I'm gonna say. Not really religious thing. Not really an intellectual thing. It's a money thing. So questions about this situation of why I would want you to remember the date. Yes?

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah, maybe so. I think because of this, if this is a motive and again remember I'm leaning towards, you know, multi-causation, right. There's always more than one reason why it is the turning point, why, you know why this stuff happens and we'll try to put together several of those. This is definitely a big motivator for what's gonna become a much bigger world with the discovery of the Americas and the communications across the Atlantic as well as, if they're gonna succeed in finding a way to get those Asian goods without going through Constantinople. The whole world is gonna change. The way the world knows about other areas of the world is gonna change. So it is a turning point, 1453, because it is a big motivation. We get a lot of stuff to happen. It's what they call a bottleneck. It creates a constriction in the system. The trade was doing just fine back and forth but when Constantinople got taken over in 1453, it created a constriction. You know, now trade wasn't as easy 'cause it caused a little more. Something like that which seemed small can have really big effect. And so it is a prime motive in changing how things happen and leading to all the things you read about in your chapter. First Stephen and then--

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Oh very well, I mean the Muslim rulers during this area--era and throughout most of history in fact, have always treated all the people of the book very well. Everybody had to follow the Muslim law because that was the civil law, right. So people did not have to follow Muslim forms of worship and were perfectly fine to worship however they wanted to and in fact they preferred self-governing community, the Ottoman Turk, and what they like was for the big city which have lots of different trade and lots of different kinds of people and ideas to sort of govern themselves by their religious community. So you would find there several Christian sections in the city, each one with its own particular Christian leader. You'd find a Jewish section in the city governed by its own particular leader that that community decided. And only when there was trouble in those communities would the Turkish Empire interfere, only if you were breaking one of the overall laws. So they're kind of similar to the Persian Empire in the way they run things. So we don't have those kinds of problems. The problems we have is that you do have this kind of new oppressor, if you like, who has taken over the system and everybody hates that. But there isn't you know any trouble as far as ordinary people are concerned or what they can do with their lives or that sort of thing. Yes.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah, but paganism is not okay. Yeah, paganism is not okay. Polytheism is not okay. If you are a person of the book which means a Jew or a Christian and I'd go further than that, I'd say a Jew or a Christian practicing in a community then you're fine.

>> How do they prove that?

>> Its not a matter of proving it, it's just a matter of social relationship. How people live together, how they hang out together. How they identify themselves. If you remember back in the Hellenistic world people stopped saying they were from a particular region or family and started saying they were from a particular city. It's very similar to that except that in the Ottoman Empire you would define yourself as a practicing a particular religion in a particular city. I'm a Jew from Damascus, you know, is how you'd introduce yourself to somebody else. So you've got a social designation. It's almost wrong to say it's a religious designation. It is in terms of practice but it's more a social designation. It says who you are, what community do you belong to. I belong to the Armenian Christian community. And I live in, you know, Istanbul. And that would be how you present yourself to somebody else. It's kind of a global way of looking at how you are and but yeah, you've got to be in one of those community. Paganism is not okay here. Yes.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Well they couldn't because you see they had been fighting for exactly that for hundreds of years. The Europeans had been fighting to hold on Constantinople for a very long time. So it's not like all of a sudden in 1453 all these Muslims invade Constantinople. There had been battles going on around the place for 150 years trying to control it. And it's just that 1453 is when they lost and couldn't get it back. I mean there were efforts to try to get it back, they couldn't get it back. Yeah. It's just wasn't impossible. It's too distant. I think, my opinion, it's too distant from the European centers of power to be able to conduct a concerted military effort. I mean you're really at the heart of Islam here. They're gonna have more force, more power there, more control. So this is what motivates--this is one of the big motivators for finding new ways to get to the old place and I want to emphasize that.

>> This is not about discovering new world, okay. This is not about going out in the USS Enterprise to discover new life and new civilization. That is not what this is about at all. They call it the voyages of discovery and the voyages of exploration and it makes you think wow, suddenly mankind was like, you know, their mind opened up and they said wow, what's out there. No, no, no, not at all. They said, how can we get to the Asian goods cheaper? Okay. That's the motivation and they're looking for a way to get to specific places 'cause they're not quite sure how to get their other ways than this. So it's not really exploring for the sake of exploring. Yeah.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> That's a good question. I'm not sure, who is the group that lost it.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Okay.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Okay, so it's twice removed.

>> Yeah.

>> Let's have our Byzantine Empire expert here. We got to use them, right. You got the knowledge, you do. Yes, you have another question or followup, okay. So yeah, and they lost second hand, really, lost and then lost again. Cool, thank you. Okay but in addition to this motivation of having to find a better trade route, you also have a technological improvement that goes along with it, that makes it possible. I mean it's all very well that they want to find another way but if you haven't got the technological means for doing it, it's just not gonna happen. It's just gonna be an idea. So this is what happened here. The two ships that you see up top are kind of what the type of sails, this is what's important is the sail and the hull, that people were using. The triangular sails you see there in the upper left are called Latin sails.

[ Pause ]

>> What Latin sails are good for because of their shape is they're very good for maneuvering a small boat in and out of tight places, so small harbor and such. They were the ships that were used in the Mediterranean a great deal for maneuvering in and out of harbors to take trade goods. They tend to be kind of small. They can't hold a whole lot but they serve the Mediterranean very well and still do. Actually, they're the most popular boat on, not only on the Mediterranean but along the Nile River as well. Are just these little boats, so these Latin sails, that can be easily turned by just a couple of crew members. It doesn't take a whole lot of guys to be able to maneuver a boat like this. At the same time if you wanted to go out on the open water where things were choppy and big a Latin sail type boat is not going to work very well so you need square sails. An example of a square sail, of course, Vikings used square, the Phoenicians used square sails. Square sails are best for catching the big wind and moving a heavy boat with a lot of stuff in it quickly. So, but they take a lot of people to be able to run them up, run them down, depending on weather conditions and turn them in the right direction. They're not very maneuverable because they're square. So it's a little tricky. They're fine for ocean going if you like but they don't help maneuver your ship very much at all. Until the 15th century boats tend to be one type or the other. They tended to be either ocean going vessels with square sails and deep hulls or shallow hulled, Latin sail, in and out quick maneuvering boat. What happened is in the 15 century the invention or the putting together of the caravel, a ship that has both.

[ Pause ]

>> In other words, a ship that can use its Latin sails to maneuver in and out of small places and use its square sails to go across an ocean or a large area of choppy water and a hull that kinds of moderate that can handle both conditions. So the caravel is two ideas, they'd come together in the caravel. This is what Columbus used. This is what Vasco da Gama used. This is what all the explorers are going places in is this piece of technology. Yeah.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah, there were projectile devices carried on ignition ship. You know there are naval battles prior to this. But if you're talking about actual, you know, a cannon, a modern metal gun, yeah. Yes, these would be the first type of ship that would carry those effectively or have reason to.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Most of the cannons they tried it and most of the cannons were too large early in the production of the caravels to be very effective at sea. There were some, but not so good. It's not really until cannon production itself improved, by the time you get into the 17th century that you really get that as feasible you know where you got the big galley and with all the cannon along the side, that kind of thing. Yeah, that's really later. So without this, the other wouldn't matter. You can want to go to Asia and get some paper but if you can't actually get there, what's the point. This makes it possible for you to maneuver in and out of wherever you came from, go cross an ocean for a long period of time and then maneuver in wherever you end up. And so you need a caravel. This is a map of the world but I want you to forget that little square, just erase it in your head. I probably should have just erased it on the slide. The world as people knew it looks like that, not like that at all but like that. They do not know nor have any reason to know that anything is over here out, no reason at all. They have lots of reason to know this and at the beginning, when Prince Henry the Navigator was leaving Portugal, they didn't even know this, Africa. So you can kind of fuzz that out and just leave the northern coast which they knew along the Mediterranean. They didn't know that either. So it's even worse than it's portrayed.

>> What about the north people?

>> Yeah, and--

>> Do they have any information of something from the west?

>> Yeah, everybody has an idea of something to the west and that has to do with the winds. The way the winds go is they kinda go this way around the Atlantic. So south, they kinda go towards the west and then in the north, in the Gulf Stream, they kinda come back towards Europe and sometimes what would happen is stuff would kinda float in that didn't look like stuff that they had there. In fact Columbus based a lot of his argument on that stuff. Pieces of driftwoods from trees nobody grew in Europe. At one point there was even a skull that washed up that they thought looked different, odd. So things would come in the current and people would say well, if the current is going around, you know if the idea that the current goes around, does that mean it's catching something on the other side to come back or is it just going around in a circle. Is there anything out there and if it is catching something, what would that be and does it have to be big. Scientific thinking, right? What's out there? Most people believed and most scholars believed, most of the statistics indicated, that there wasn't anything out there at all, that it was a giant ocean with a circular current. Just, and that made perfect sense and that it floats, you know, all the way to here, right. If you put it on the globe, it goes all the way to Asia, this monstrous sea. Yes.

>> I mean no one has really thought we were in this way.

>> No.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah. Talk about myths and stupid stuff we've been thought, I mean that's probably number 1, the idea that anybody ever thought. The earth was flat is absolutely ridiculous. You can see the curvature of the earth from a lot of different places. For coastal people to think that would be absolutely impossibly. Ever go out and watch the sunset from high enough up? You can see that there is a curve here. It is a ball and of course going back to Ptolemy and Aristotle, their whole philosophy of the way the universe worked was based on the earth being a ball at the center, not only a ball but a perfect, perfect sphere. You know not quite as perfect as the spheres out there but pretty close. So nobody ever believed that the world was flat. That's completely silly and I wondered sometimes how that got started but it's possibly easier to explain than what I'm about to explain to you about what really happened and maybe that's just why. Where you taught the world was flat and that Columbus was the one who said it wasn't, it was round?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

[ Inaudible Remarks ]

>> Yeah, and that's what makes him wonderful, right. Isn't he a hero because he knew? He knew and nobody else knew and he knew the world was round and he went out there and he proved it. And that's why he is just incredible and we have Columbus Day. Okay.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah, yeah well, he has to be actually because he was Italian and that's the real reason for the glory of Columbus is because at the time that that whole story was being circulated about 150 years ago.

>> We had a lot of people coming in from Europe into the United States who needed some sort of hero, some sort of mythology of their own so that they could persevere and be determined. He's a real good example of that. He certainly does persevere and he's certainly very determined. But he's also completely wrong.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah. Okay. Well, what they have though to do with it. He even mapped out what they're gonna map out. Of course I wanna remind you of the astrolabe. You remember the Muslim invention? Going back hundreds of years before this, it was being commonly used by mariners everywhere and Columbus was a mariner and Henry the Navigator. They know how to use this tool, and with this tool, they can find out pretty accurately what latitude they're at. And that's very important for doing any sort of, you know, how are we gonna get to Asia in different ways. Now again, this map is somewhat deceptive because it gives you the whole picture of what Africa looks like already and they don't have that when they start. Are we able to imagine that we have no idea how big Africa is or what shape it is? 'Cause that's where they're starting, they don't know. They know Africa is there, obviously, because they've been in the Mediterranean for years. Prince Henry the Navigator starts exploring there a little bit along the northern coast. Now, he's working before 1453. So Prince Henry, we can't say he's one of these guys trying to get somewhere else. I'd love to tell you he's just out there exploring, looking for new life and new civilization, but he's not--he's looking for African gold. West Africa had a lot of gold. And in between is the Sahara Desert. And the Sahara Desert and Northern Africa was controlled by a Muslim empire. So prince Henry and the Portuguese have this cool idea that what if we could take some boat and go down the coast, maybe we could get to the African tribes that have the gold by going around the Sahara Desert and cut out the Muslim middleman. I mean, the whole thing is just cut off the Muslim middleman, whether it's Constantinople or North Africa. See if we can get there and get the products directly. So Henry, before the fall of Constantinople is exploring along the coast and mapping it very nicely, and using his astrolabe, the coast there, Northwest Africa. So he starts it. Then once Constantinople is taken over, the goal becomes, wait a minute, maybe there's a way to go around Africa and get to India or Asia and get the goods that way. So his work becomes really important then, not just for African gold, but for the whole idea of getting around the continent. But keep in mind; they have no idea how big this sucker is. No idea. So they're just cruising along there along the coast. Can you imagine what happened when they turned that corner? What would they have thought?

>> In 1 week, we're done.

>> We're done. That's it. Good job. Let's go. Can you imagine how disappointing it must have been because again, they don't know how much stuff to carry, and there's only so many ships they can take, which means these voyages go down and back, and down and back, and down and back, and they go a little further each time, and then they have to go home and get more supplies, and more ships, and do it again, and they did that. This is why it takes so long. All the way down the coast, until finally, Vasco da Gama round the bottom, 1498. Okay, so again, here's where dates are important because when is Columbus?

>> 1492.

>> 1492. Right, didn't we all have to memorize that at some point in our childhood, right? 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue, okay. 1492. So this is why technology is important. They start early. The Portuguese had a jumpstart early because of Prince Henry the Navigator on getting around Africa and going that way. So because Africa is so large, it takes so much time to get around the bottom. They don't do this until 1498. By then Columbus has already gone and does his western game. So the Portuguese are in on this from the beginning but they're trying to go the logical way, east, because who's gonna go west? What a stupid idea. You're gonna cross all that open ocean?

>> Why?

>> Why what?

>> Well you said why would you cross all that ocean?

>> Why would you go?

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Well, that's the problem. And that's actually the technological problem. If you were actually going to cross that much ocean, okay, not only would the question be why should you bother, but how could you possible survive. There's no way you could carry enough stuff. I mean, imagine the size of the world as it is right now. Just put the globe in your head. Now erase the America. Just erase them, make it ocean. How far is it going this way? How far is it from Portugal to China?

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah, [inaudible]. How far is it miles-wise? I mean, this is 3000 miles, right? Yeah, okay. There was no possible way however big your fleet of ships were for you to carry enough food and water to go more than that 2800 miles across the sea. So if you know that that ocean is like 7, 8, 9, 10,000 miles wide, and they did know this because they had accurate calculations of the circumference of the earth. They had those from the ancient people. They had those from Babylonia. They had those from Egypt. They knew how big the world was. They had the accurate size, but if you erase the America, the ocean's too big to cross. So yeah, why would anybody go to the west? It's suicide. You wouldn't do it. So it never even occur to the Portuguese to go that way. We gotta get around Africa and that's why they kept trying. And they did it. They did get around Africa. And Vasco da Gama got to India. And they thought India was gonna be a primitive civilization, so they brought lousy stuff to trade and they found out they wrong. They had to go back several times to find out that India was a highly sophisticated civilization. And once they realized that, they stopped bringing stupid glass beads and started bringing real stuff and actually doing some trade. It took a while to get that network going. So Portuguese have the African groups. But it takes some time. Alright, now here's Columbus' problem. Everybody knew the accurate size of the world. Everybody knew the real circumference of the globe except Columbus. Columbus picked up some bizarre documents dating back to Greek time by some idiot who had miscalculated the whole thing, and was saying that the circumference of the world calculations were wrong and that the world was actually about a third smaller than it is. He had based his calculations on faulty mathematics and the readings of other stupid people. And Columbus read his work and concluded that all the other scholars were--and this is the renaissance, okay? All the other scholars are wrong and I'm right, because the book I got says the world is only this big. And if the world's only this big instead of this big, then that ocean isn't so big. That ocean's small. And he calculated that as being about 3000 miles or so and said we can do this. All we gotta do is go west. That's Columbus' world. You leave Europe, you go 3000 miles, and you hit islands off the coast of China, if you go straight across. Yeah?

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah, sort of.

>> And there's no Australia.

>> [Inaudible] Yeah.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> They're missing--yes, we're missing a lot of detail. And of course, the Africa thing right at this time, who knows, Africa seems to go right off the map. I mean, nobody's gotten around the bottom. It could have no end. So it's drawn all the way to the bottom 'cause you know, nobody knows. Yeah?

>> [Inaudible] I've heard that like Australia was started 'cause a lot of country says their prisoners there.

>> Yeah, it's Britain.

>> Didn't that--did that help start it?

>> Yup. Well, that's not how Australia started. Australia had a native population, right, but the European colonization of Australia started because Britain's prisons were overflowing they decided that deportation was a good idea. And so they've began deporting them to Australia and dumping them there. Yeah. It's not that different from how this country was founded if you think about it. I mean, we've got weird religious centers that just couldn't seem to hang over there. And then some of them go to Holland, you know, and then they can't hang there either because everything is too free and easy over there. So they come over here, you know, and it's not really that different. We have a lot in common with Australia to say we're deliberately sending people there on prison ships. That's right. We don't know Australia's there yet at all. And of course, England isn't really part of it. This whole competition right at this point is between Spain and Portugal. And Columbus--Columbus is Italian. So what's he doing sailing for Spain? What's the story there?

>> He wants to become the admiral.

>> He wants to be an admiral.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah, he couldn't get the money. So it's--

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yes, he wasn't backed by anybody in Italy. Italy is the home of the renaissance, okay? They know how big the world is in Italy. Okay, do you think anybody is gonna listen to Columbus in Italy? He goes to 2, 3, 4 great lords, you know, great families of the Italian renaissance, and says, "hey, I've got this great idea. I think it's only 3,000 miles of you go to the west, and then you're gonna hit China. So fund me." Right, nobody's gonna do that.

>> So he can't get any funding anywhere in Italy. He goes everywhere dragging around this gallon, this piece of driftwood and his book that says about the size of the earth and trying to talk people into sponsoring his plan and they won't. He doesn't find anybody stupid enough to sponsor it until he gets to Spain, okay. And that's where he meets Queen Isabella.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> There's a lot. Yeah, there's a lot of things going on

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Well, I don't think it was personal in that way. It was professional.

[ Inaudible Remarks ]

>> Oh no, it's not that personal. History has rarely, rarely gets to that level. What it is is he's wife a bit [inaudible]. I mean Isabel doesn't get the idea of the size of the earth that she's actually going through the driftwood Columbus hands her and go oh, that's very interesting. Really, do you think so, and she thinks he's some sort of visionary, okay. Ferdinand was a lot more intelligent and knew that was not the case. But the idea was that if they funded him, they would at least get rid of him and because the ocean is so far, I mean he'll be gone and they don't have to worry about him anymore. And it is surprising of him coming back over and over and over and begging and begging and begging and they thought well, what if he made it somewhere. You know, what if he does find something cool and claims it for Spain. That would go right along with what we're doing which is our Reconquista. Remember the Reconquista, they're kicking out all the Jews and they kicking out all the Muslims and they're re-catholicizing Spain, in some cases newly catholicizing Spain. Ferdinand and Isabel, the most catholic majesties ever are taken over and this would just, you know, if he did find something, if he did end up somewhere and brought back something. If he found maybe gold, gold would be good. If he'd get that that would just really look good and if they lost him well they'd lose some money. So, yeah, so they sent him off and he goes off on his thing. Three thousand miles later, by luck, there's something there. It is by luck. And he sailed, he drift because of the way the winds go. He drifts farther south. He was trying to head straight across to China but he knew because he's got his astrolabe. He knows he's drifting southward so he head now this way or this and he's going this way, he went straight. He's going this way. He figured if he went straight, right, Japan, China right here. But he knows he's drifting southward. They don't anything about India is right here. So, he thinks this is India because he knows what latitude he's at, because of the astrolabe. So if you ever wondered why he didn't think he was in China, he thought he was in India and called everybody--

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Right, is because he knows where he is, the latitude. Everything else is wrong, it's not that he's not a good mariner. He's just not a good navigator.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Well, they're Indians.

>> Okay.

>> Well, they're red and his vision of India is you're correct. The same as everybody else's vision of India. He'd bring up some trinkets and he got really good stuff So, he thinks he's meeting those same people that da Gama ends up meeting, you know, the next decade and in this case, he can see them as primitive and they like the trinkets. Yeah.

>> Did they have any means of like bringing like Indian translator [inaudible] over there?

>> You don't know. Now, they tried to bring some people who thought they could--they brought people who spoke several different languages. And of course, that's always risky bringing somebody from Europe who said they speak--can speak to Indian people, you know. So, they tried it and they had brought some people who could supposedly talk to Indian people but those people weren't very reliable. So when they couldn't understand the local language, there wasn't a whole lot of surprise about that. It is just kind of well, maybe we're on island 'cause they were clearly on island. They were not on mainland of any kind and India is the mainland. Everybody knows that. So, they figured they're on island that speak a different dialect and that it's just not being [inaudible]. They're on islands off the coast of India. It's how they reported it. We hit islands off the coast of India, we traded some stock. Yeah, not even, not even, not even that big an island because that island would have some its own water source and these islands didn't. So, yes just little islands that were off the coast of India that we're gonna do some trading. Yes [inaudible].

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Oh, he never knew that.

>> He never knew?

>> No, in fact he insisted that he had gone to, even though he goes four times. He takes four trips and on the fourth trip, he's actually on Mainland Mexico which has a water source and should clearly indicate to anybody that this is a continent thing. Okay, he still thinks he's going back and forth to India the whole time. Long after everybody else is going "Chris, you discovered a new world, new world, man." And he's going "No, they sent me to India. I was commissioned to go to India. I am the admiral of the Spanish seas because I went to India." You know, his whole life and his professional reputation and his [inaudible] was all tied up in the India thing. So he couldn't see it at all. Everybody else got that it was different, probably because of the monkeys. They brought stuff back, right? He brings stuff back, that's why you're going. They brought stuff back, and they brought back new world monkeys. The new world monkeys are different from old world monkeys. I forget which one has the prehensile tail and hang from the trees. I think the new world monkeys have the prehensile tail.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yes. And old world monkeys do not have a prehensile tail. They bring back these monkeys, and they're hanging off the chandeliers in the Spanish court and people are going, "You know, I'm not sure he went to India."

[ Laughter ]

>> Got it? Okay. Something's up there. So other people got the idea, but no, Columbus never actually did. It's--he didn't go. That's okay. It doesn't really matter whether he go. Okay. It is a new world and things start to happen. The highly romanticized picture of Columbus kneeling before Isabella. Yes, Chris?

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Well, they were guessing, right?

>> Yes.

>>'Cause we got the western sea here and nobody really knows it. So they know where the currents go approximately. They know what latitude they're at. They do not know what conditions they're gonna be under. This is why Isabella wasn't quite as stupid and only gave him 3 ships. He asked for 20, you know. But, you know, if you're gonna lose ships out there in some sort--they don't know what the storm patterns are, they don't know what the waves are like, they don't know any of that stuff. So he only sent 3 ships. You know, you don't risk everything.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yes, maybe. Although, you know, he had trouble because his crew almost killed him. The first round, he sighted land just in time because the crew was ready to mutiny. They wanted to go back immediately. They said we're out here in the middle of nowhere. We've gone past--hey, this maybe the flatter thing. There was a mariner's term called the ends of the earth. The ends of the earth is the place where you run out of food and water if you don't turn back and go home. You won't make it back if you go past. That's the ends of the earth. And maybe somebody said, well, falling off the edge of the earth, maybe the end of the earth was conceived of as a place you fall off of. But, yeah, so going back was a big issue, because they want to go back right before they hit land. They never gonna kill him in mutiny because they thought he'd send them all to death, that he was a nutcase, and then they happened to get there. Yeah.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Watching.

[ Laughter ]

>> Really?

>> Yeah, because England, of course, with its geographic position and its navy is much more concerned with the Hanseatic League and the things going on in the north. And they get--they get their eastern stuff through so many different channels that they weren't really in a position yet financially to do any major voyages. But they're trying to get set up because Elizabeth--Queen Elizabeth want this very much. And once she comes into power--so we're talking, you know, 1550s or so, once she comes into power, all the stuff the Spanish and Portuguese have done is already known, and she wants a big chunk of America. She wants Ireland, and she wants America. And all that Canadian stuff up there too. So they'll get into it when they have a leader and the money ready. Then they'll get it through. Andrew, go ahead.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yes, they're not ready.

>> Yeah, that was like they found the people and then they got killed, and that the country was still fractured, and the local monarchs, I mean like Henry VII, was busy trying to make sure no one was trying to [inaudible].

>> Yeah, or kill him.

>> Because like over, like 20 years of time, people have seen the monarchs would constantly rise, and then they were killed, and they--the new monarchs afterwards was not the responsible one. They're trying to disapprove and make sure they were connected. You know, people were [inaudible].

>> Yes. So at that point, you haven't even gotten to where the Protestants and the Catholics are fighting each other and everything. You got just get on to the work or power in England at the time. There's just nobody equipped to go out and do anything except watch at this point. Yes? Go ahead [inaudible].

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah, for approximately the same problems. In fact, we'll see when we start looking at the wars of religion what France is gonna have to deal with. But at this time, they're not set--they're not set up either, and they're also watching.

>> And Holland?

>> Yeah. Now, Holland of course wants to dominate the whole northern sea. Like England, their focus is the northern sea, not the south. And there were a lot of voices in Holland who said this whole thing is stupid. You don't know how big Africa is and there's nothing to the west. Holland was there because they're carriers. They're merchants. And as soon as the networks are established, they'll be right there.

>> Yeah.

>> Benefiting from every single one.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> But yeah, they didn't wanna do the R&D, right? And they'll get very rich because they didn't bother with that part. They just waited until the rich were established and then they followed them. Yeah, [inaudible]. Yes, is it--are you called?

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Okay. Was there another question? Yes, Eric?

>> The Vikings, there are information of the Americans that never shared, they kept it a secret?

>> Completely indirect. Because what they discovered in the northern sea was this incredible fishing area, just amazing. It made them filthy rich and they didn't want anybody to know about it. So they did all kinds of tricky things, like naming Greenland Iceland and Iceland Greenland?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> They did all that stuff. They did that on purpose to throw people off, and it worked. And these people still think, ooh, Iceland. No, Iceland's really nice. Greenland, it sounds wonderful. No, Greenland's really cold. Yeah, they did all that kind of stuff to keep people out of their fishing zone. So, all of that was very hush-hush. They didn't publish maps, they didn't talk to anybody. No, it's like this big, big secret [inaudible]. Yeah?

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> It's up here, and it's still there. It's still one of the greatest fishing grounds in the world.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah, it's wonderful. It's all right here.

[ Simultaneous Talking ]

>> Great fish, herring, the big white thing, wonderful. This whole area here is a phenomenal fishing area. And they made a fortune there.

>> Did they ever get to like [inaudible] the anchor?

>> Yeah, maybe. There's evidence. There's evidence of some possible writing cut down here and there along the coast here of [inaudible].

>> And they were fishing to like--

>> Yeah, absolutely.

[ Simultaneous Talking ]

>> There's some archeological evidence that just, you know, with campfires and stuff, like--

>> And then there's--

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah. They always find this stuff that indicates the Vikings were there, but they don't want anybody to know about it. So yeah, they don't get the--they don't get credit. Yeah?

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah, there is. Because the Chinese at this--in the 1450s, the Chinese are already--this is way before Columbus, way before Vasco da Gama, the Chinese had created their fleet, under the [inaudible]. There's a Muslim [inaudible] who work for the government. He created this huge fleet of ship. It's like 48 ships, and they came out from China and the start going to a lot of the coast. And they got all the way--we know for sure they got all the way to Africa, the coast of East Africa. They brought back a giraffe for the Chinese emperor. They are all over this. They're all [inaudible] here and going this way. And so, because they were so technologically advanced and because they have ships, they have so many ships, they were in a position to have done this. They could have done it. But the Chinese emperor was convinced--he came convinced that he was living the mandate of heaven because they were having contact with all these other people when trying to meet other people and eventually maybe entire thing was just pulled back and shut down. And the ships were literally burned and destroyed because they felt it was the wrong direction for China to go, this whole exploration thing. So they had the advance technology. So the question is, did anybody just break off from [inaudible], you know, a ship that was lost on the way, somewhere in here and maybe, you know, went over there. It's entirely possible, but we have no evidence. Yeah?

>> I might not be 100 percent sure of this, but I think there's like an anchor in the [inaudible] museum.

>> Yeah.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah. None of that would surprise me at all because they definitely had the technological savvy and the navigational understanding to have done something like that. And the current theory, it came out a few years ago, is that they had here. It's that the Chinese got to here, somewhere, that they were trying everything. There was archeological evidence along the coast of South America that the Chinese had made contact there during the 15th century.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Oh, don't cross this way? Well, obviously people will move across that way because that's how the America got populated in the first place. They think the current theory is the [inaudible] Strait was frozen and people walked across during the ice age. But exploration up through here, you don't have centers in the north. The Vikings are kind of an exception. They don't have northern centers of population that can get together the money to create the ingenuity. You know, you gotta have time [inaudible] the system to do this kind of thing. They don't have the concentration of population necessary to make that worth doing. Is that all? Alright, the result, the effect, the impact. Stuff goes back and forth. I mean, they call it the Columbian exchange. Your book picked up on it. It's on the book. This is how the--what the historians do [inaudible] the textbook. Historian named Alfred Crosby back in 1983, I think, came up with a book called "The Columbian Exchange" examining all the stuff that had gone back and forth as a result of Columbus' discovery, whether he knew it or not, of the America. And that set in forth a lot of ecological history and history about agriculture and food stuff, and things like that. They called it the Columbian exchange because of him, and now it's in your textbook. You know that took a few years, but it got in your textbook. So it's fun to do this around Thanksgiving. So you should think about what you eat at Thanksgiving, okay, for a minute, think about what you eat. What do we eat at thanksgiving dinner? What sort of traditional--

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Turkey. Turley is our new world stuff. Turkeys aren't from here. They travel, right?

>> Pretty much everything--

>> Pretty much everything going this way, right?

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Going this way, turkeys, pumpkin, squash, peppers. Peppers are a little south here. Sweet potatoes, okay. I don't know about peanuts or not, really a popular thing, you know, but--

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah. Potatoes, certainly. Corn, okay, all that stuff. So everything going this way, that's our native food, right? Cranberries, right? Cranberries don't travel so well, so they're not here. But, cranberries are native to here to the new world, not the old world. They don't have any cranberries in the old world. Yes?

>> Chocolate, right?

>> Well, chocolates are really, you know, I can do a whole course on chocolate [inaudible].

[ Laughter ]

>> Photo edit. This is like seriously in my neighborhood. Chocolate, of course, they had in Mexico with the cocoa and they would drink it. It was food of the gods. They would drink chocolate but it didn't have sugar or milk in it. So, chocolate's kind of international. We think of chocolate has sugar, milk and cocoa. And so you got cocoa from Mexico, and then the milk of northern Europe, and then the sugar of the southern part of America here on the Canary Island, and you put it all together and you get that wonderful thing. I don't think I would have liked it the way the Mexicans have it, without any sugar or milk or that stuff. Yeah?

>> If tobacco is going [inaudible]--

>> Tobacco, yeah.

>> --then they never had any [inaudible].

>> The tobacco was being grown again in the islands off the coast of Europe and in southern Europe in very small quantities prior to the--it's very, very, very expensive luxury. I--but in America, it would be grown easily in very vast areas. Particularly one [inaudible] were good, you know, thanks to small pox and diseases and all that, you know, [inaudible] grab a land, it grows back on it. Then it becomes the price goes down, everybody starts smoking. It becomes a trendy thing.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Well, you know, no, I say I don't know that. I know there's a theory about that. I'm betting they put that on here, did they? There's a--

[ Laughter ]

>> Yeah. There's a skull. Well, you see the skull. Okay.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah, maybe. The--maybe. I've read a lot of stuff on that. I'm so much mixed. You see the skull up there? This is like crucial for the native populations in America. We're talking of 95 percent mortality rate, 95 percent. The Europeans, what has happened here is that the Europeans are part of a very large, what we call, germ pool. They have contact with lots of diseases from Africa and from Asia in Europe. And so they've developed immunity to a lot of those diseases overtime. When you develop immunity overtime, things that were killer diseases becomes childhood diseases where some people die but not too many. There were a bunch of those. And what happens is they come into contact with a population that has never been in contact with any of those. The very sophisticated germ pool meets the very isolated germ pool. And the things that were ordinary to Europeans, that survival pool become killers in stuff right here. And that's why the areas where Columbus was personally, where he was, 95 to 99 percent of the Indians he met were dead within a year, because of this. Yes, [inaudible]?

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> That's where the simplest argument comes in. They say--yeah, they say that the only disease that went the other way--because again, you're talking about a very sophisticated mix, genetic and disease pool, Europe, Africa, Asia combining together, and a very isolated pool here.

>> So, the likelihood of anything going back the other way is very small, but there are some records that the Indians kept here of their various diseases that they had encountered prior to European contact, okay? And one of these diseases seems to have the same symptoms as syphilis. Now, the other thing that adds weight to this is that right after Columbus comes back the first time, within a few months, a syphilis epidemic starts in Europe, okay. Now, current calculations say that for Columbus' crew to have caused that, they would have had to be having sex all over Europe with absolutely everybody. It's too fast for them to have actually caused the syphilis epidemic. So, there's a bunch of questions here. If it's not them, where did they come from? And, what was this that the Indians had already that led to killer disease? And did it come back over? So, that's why you get the--well, the only thing they gave the--that the new world gave the old world was syphilis is because there are people examining the--this issue of what disease was that that the Indians had already and why was there a syphilis epidemic in 1493? Yeah?

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Exactly, millennia.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah, and that's why it's very--that's why I'm referring to this germ pool as sophisticated versus the very isolated smaller, smaller pool here. And this still happens, right? There are still areas in the world where the people are so isolated. This has happened in the Amazon within the last 25, 30 years that--scientists going and studying the Amazon have come upon people who've never had contact outside themselves and they immediately make them all sick and they die, and they're not doing it on purpose, they just sneeze and several communities gone. Yeah.

>> I was just wondering, now did Columbus ever go back towards the same island? Did you think it would be like came and then left and all these people start to die? [Inaudible]

>> Oh yeah, they did, Hagan, but there's not enough left to do anything about it. At first, he wanted to enslave them. He thought they're natural place, right? They're more primitive than we are and they already know how to work the place. It does amount and he--he had them mining for gold, which was stupid 'cause there isn't any gold in the Caribbean. But he has the mining for gold for the glory of Spain and then, you know, killing them with overwork. I mean the whole pre-slave culture gets set up there with him, with him personally in charge of it trying to--trying to make a system work for Spain here.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah. Well, you know--that's why--that's why there is a protest now every--every time there is a Columbus Day you will find, if you look for them, plenty of native protest on Columbus Day for exactly that reason because they don't like the--Yeah, they don't like them.

[ Inaudible Remark ] > Yeah, yeah. I don't like them.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah. This is a massive genocide. The only reason you don't wanna use that term is it wasn't intentional. The word genocide usually refers to--it's supposed to refer to the intentional eradication of an identifiable group of people. This was convenient but not intentional, it--it's not quite the same thing. Yeah [inaudible].

>> They're not like small pox or anything?

>> Small pox, and this big--oh that. Yeah, the small pox blanket thing. You're referring to this--the plains tribe in the Americas and things that the Americans knew. Yeah, to try to expand into--into the west and small pox was still virulent among much of the population. So yeah, that was--that can be done deliberately as well. But there, you're trying to eliminate a particular group in a particular area. You're not necessarily trying to eradicate the entire culture. So, I'm really careful with how we use the term genocide.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yes. And that's--

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Exactly, and people who use the word genocide much more freely than I do, that's exactly their argument. That's exactly--it's like well, even a small group has its own culture. If you're trying to deliberately eradicate the two, okay, then you're--then you're trying to do that. The difficulty is just in analyzing motivation. They really wanted them to leave. They would have just left and gone to the reservation like they were supposed to. Yeah, just get out of here. Right, exactly. So--but I don't know whether we can use the term genocide there. Yeah.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Oh well, she didn't [inaudible] about it.

[ Laughter ]

>> So that's what it was 'cause she [inaudible] from a hospital and--

>> Well, also the problem is they can't identify it very well anymore. It doesn't show up very often. We have better doctors here who can identify it more because of the fear [inaudible] 'cause there are squirrels up there who have it. It's okay to [inaudible]--but yes, nobody have seen it. It's hard to figure out what it is, yes. That's very, very rare. Okay, so the bad stuff that happens. These are people from the Aztec empire, Cortes gets there in 1519.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> No, but he goes. And these are Indians with smallpox from the Aztec empire. I can't call them Aztec people. I can't remember whether it's your book or when I was doing research that kept calling these the Aztec people. There are no Aztec people. The Aztecs were an empire which means they run a whole bunch of different kingdoms. They have taken over a whole bunch of different kingdoms, and the central kingdom or the original Mexico is the center of the Aztec kingdom, but there's no such thing as the Aztec people. So I don't know which Indians these are dying of smallpox, but you get the idea that Cortes, in having his victory over Mexico, the same impact of disease hits the Indians there as well.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Also--I mean, in the case of Mexico, you had a sophisticated city state with huge military and good commanders and you had to pitch battles there. It's not at all the same with Columbus in the Caribbean.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah, disease. What happens, and it takes--it takes a little longer, it takes almost a month for the disease to hit. But then of course it just cleans up the whole operation, yeah.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Well, their population was pretty huge and they do have a lot of rituals that involve mass execution in the Aztec empire. A lot of it was for political power to make sure that no group got uppity 'cause it's why it's so important to understand as an empire. So it's partly spiritual, it's partly a terrible practice to keep the population under control, but it does not seem to have decreased the population by that much. I'm sorry?

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> It's a national cult, or an imperial. It's a real solid connection. And if you go to museums and you look at the stuff that's involved in them, it's a real solid connection between the god and the political motivation for the people in power. There is--it's very tightly done, very well done, very efficient, and very deadly. Yes?

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Sure. It's a good question. You have to [inaudible].

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Was it a disease? Well, there you are then.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Yeah right. I don't know, we have to--we have to look that up.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Okay, this is another effect though that we can lose track up here. I mean it's not--Columbus tried to enslave the Indians and he did the best he could with it that they were dying too fast to be enslaved. As the Europeans came in to the Americas, that's exactly what they found. Every group tried to enslave the Indians or make a deal with them or get them to work or whatever, and they had trouble because the Indians knew the territory and left, or they got diseases and died. So, Indian slavery did not work out quite as well as they wanted it to. They tried for a couple of generations in the Americas and it was a problem. What you want, of course, is to get people to be your slave to or from an even larger germ pool than all these Indians who are dying. And you've got a group, and they're readily available because they're already for sale all along the coast of East Africa with all those Muslim middlemen making the money. The slave trade was not invented because the Americas needed labor. That's another big nasty myth. Slave trade has been going on for hundreds of years with lots of different colors and types, and nationalities, and languages of people, and at this time it was going on back and forth across the African continent. The trans-Saharan slave trade was a huge money maker for tribes on both sides of the arrangement. In most cases, what you've got are African tribes selling their prisoners of war to get them away so they can solidify their political power, and this is exactly what was happening in West Africa. Fifteenth century was a time of the formation of giant, wealthy, west African kingdom, and as they expanded into the anterior of Africa, they take the prisoners of war back to the coast and sold them to the eager Portuguese and Spanish who wanted the labor for the new world.

>> So instead of selling them eastward across the Sahara, which had been what they'd been doing for a very long time, they can now sell them much more conveniently off the coast, and those prisoners then get shipped to the America, a very handy arrangement for a slave trade that was already going on. So if we locate the slave trade, it wasn't invented, it shifted from the trans-Saharan slave trade, and that causes a lot of depression among the slave traders of Sahara to the trans-Atlantic slave trade of putting people on ship. And the whole characteristics, all the characteristics of slavery completely change with that. You are taking people way away across an ocean, they don't speak the language, you're cramming them into ship, they have no idea whether the ship is the whole thing, just the end of it. I mean many jumped off. They had no idea that this wasn't just what they were doing, where they were going with this, right? You have no way of knowing. They get to the other side and are worked to death in many cases because they've got this excellent disease resistance, right? No problem. Heat? No big deal. Work long hours, that's okay. A much better labor pool and unspeakable conditions to this people who would have had a much better life, if you read reports of the trans-Saharan slave trade, yes, slavery but really not so bad. And some people treated their slaves like a member of the family, they gave them housing, and they fed them properly, and they didn't tend to work them to death. That was really unusual in Africa. But once they got over here with the trans-Atlantic trade, you get real atrocity as slavery emerges. Yes.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Equivalent to now?

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> That is a--you know, consider them about the price of a car. It's approximately the price of a good car and it varies depending on male, female, child, health, what they can do, whether they have any skills, all of that stuff, it's all very important. But it's about the same as a car.

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> One more thing to know before we go here is that since both Spain and Portugal were in competition and Spain got west first and Portugal got east first, they wanted a deal about who could trade where. Once the Spanish discovered the Americas, they didn't want the Portuguese muscling in. And once the Portuguese discovered the routes to India, they didn't want the Spanish muscling in, so they made a deal. As you can see here two deals and the ultimate deal is this one, 1494, the Treaty of Tordesillas, before they even have--know what that all is, right? This is only 2 years after Columbus or so. They don't even know what's over there exactly.

>> The Portuguese had Brazil.

>> Yeah, the Portuguese get Brazil because they had sent out ships and had found a little tip there, the year after Columbus, and said, "This part is ours." And so they ended up without having any knowledge of how big South America--They ended up drawing the line here which is why even to this day, everybody in South America speak Spanish except for Brazil which speaks a version of Portuguese, because it ends up that whole area of Brazil and that being Portuguese because they squeegee this line over a little bit so that they could have more land. Yes?

[ Inaudible Remark ]

>> Everybody will end up in Japan and everybody will end up in China. And if you like that subject, world history is the place for you because there's a lot of stuff that happens over there. But yes, all of these gets bigger. We're starting with Spain and Portugal, soon the British will jump in and the French and the Dutch and--a global colony free for all. Alright, we need to work on the thesis next time obviously since we've spent this whole time dealing with discovery, which was fun. I don't regret it. So make sure that you give me your homework now and then I'll make sure that I'd bring it back. If you want your test and stuff, I've got all this too.

==== Transcribed by Automatic Sync Technologies ====